Comments on: “Heads they win, tails we lose”: the corruption of science https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/ Marketing Ethics for the Easily Swayed Fri, 26 Aug 2016 00:40:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Anonymous https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-59807 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:00:08 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-59807 Scrolled down and saw it. Thanks. You might want to consider highlighting it through a full post on your site? Goldacre is going to need all the allies he can get. I think he summarizes the situation well when he said this in a recent interview:

“The intention of the pharmaceutical industry in my view is simply to delay the public becoming aware of the problem and professionals and policymakers addressing the problem and they will defend what they believe is their right to withhold unflattering clinical trial data. They will defend that harder than they defend anything else. You watch.

“Marketing, payments to doctors, all of that stuff, they’ll fight on it but to hide the unflattering results in clinical trials, they will fight viciously, tooth and nail, because that is more important to them than anything else. If you can poison the well of medical evidence, then you are made.”

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/28/how-drug-companies-distort-science-qa-with-ben-goldacre/

via Pharmagossip (who has been giving Goldacre and the book a lot of coverage. 1boringoldman – cannot recommend that site enough – has also been covering alltrials a fair amount).

Some other relevant links worth the time to read:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/02/05/talking-with-ben-goldacre-about-his-new-book-bad-pharma/

http://theconversation.edu.au/peer-review-bad-pharma-by-ben-goldacre-9940

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/11/qa-ben-goldacre

Especially:
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/bad_pharma_interview_with_ben_goldacre
Because it lays out just how sophisticated an argument he is making.

I actually think he is altogether too optimistic about the overall impact of medications. I also think that broader access to patient level data is very important, and not included in the main thrust of alltrials. I also think he oversells the promise of data mining through electronic health (health care renewal, which you might want to think about adding to your blog roll – I’m full of suggestions today – speaks eloquently to the challenges inherent in that).

So, I’m not a fan of everything he is saying.

But, Goldacre seems to speak clearly about just how savage a fight this is going to be. And, he’s actually fighting it. And, fighting it damn well.

We really need him to win, at least on some real levels.

Because, there is simply NO way for patients and clinicians to compensate on an individual level for this absence of data.

“because that is more important to them than anything else”

Is it to the rest of us?

There is an enormous amount of potential loss of money at stake for a handful of companies.
vs
There is some benefit spread across an enormous number of people. But, it’s hard to know for any one person when the trickle down impact of that information (well, lack of information) is going to come into play.

So maybe not.

People might need a reminder about ethics. Ethics of the highly highly practical kind.

Perhaps need to be nagged about it.

Oh ….

You could do worse than convince every reader of your blog to read the book and sign on to the campaign.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-59802 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:08:01 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-59802 Yes, they did. Couldn’t solve the embedding issue but they did send me the graphic and I just posted it as a widget with a live link attached. Thanks for asking.

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By: Annonymous https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-59800 Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:54:19 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-59800 Did Alltrials ever get back to you about the embedding problem?

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By: My Lymphoma Journey https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-58730 Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:12:14 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-58730 […] “Heads they win, tails we lose”: the corruption of science provides compelling evidence of some of the dubious practices linked to research (e.g., ghostwriting of research articles by company scientists) or just plain ethical lapses (e.g., The American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry accepting money from Coca Cola and then changing its position on the link between soft drinks and cavities). […]

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By: The Accidental Amazon https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-57941 Sat, 16 Feb 2013 16:48:24 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-57941 I know!! The nurse, however, did make me a bowl of oatmeal afterwards…

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-57831 Fri, 15 Feb 2013 20:57:04 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-57831 What? No flowers?!? 😉

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By: The Accidental Amazon https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-57817 Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:18:38 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-57817 Carolyn, fear not. I had a colonoscopy yesterday, so clearly, I gave up on the whole romance thing. No flowers from the gastroenterologist, that’s for sure!! LOL

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-57776 Fri, 15 Feb 2013 03:41:18 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-57776 Thanks for the tip on the AllTrials link – just tried embedding it on my site, but got a 404 error message back; have contacted AllTrials about this. Yep, my Bad Pharma book is on order.

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By: Anonymous https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-57771 Fri, 15 Feb 2013 02:35:11 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-57771 You might want to seriously consider putting a button on your page linking to this site:

http://www.alltrials.net/supporters/the-alltrials-web-button/

You can see what that link on a website looks like here:

And, pick up a copy of Ben Goldacre’s new book “Bad Pharma” if you haven’t already done so.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-57751 Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:41:50 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-57751 Thanks Kathi – sorry about mucking up your Valentine’s Day celebrations with this post! Next time …. more hearts and flowers, okay? 😉

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/14/heads-they-win-tails-we-lose-how-corporations-corrupt-science/comment-page-1/#comment-57750 Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:34:54 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8743#comment-57750 Thanks so much for sending these links. A couple thoughts, specifically on: “All trials were fully or partially funded by pharmaceutical companies, which is something to bear in mind. Research by Als-Nielsen and colleagues in 2003 demonstrated that pharmaceutical industry sponsored trials were more likely than non-industry funded trials to report results that favour the drug over placebo”.

Although the Cochrane reviewers described the overall quality of the trials as “good”, there remains the known credibility issue of studies that are bought and paid for by industry. Heard an interesting analogy the other day: if Big Tobacco paid physicians (as they certainly have in the past) to cite “research” that claims to show cigarette smoking is harmless, how credible would you consider those claims?

The other red flag for me is the fact (caught by the second report) that in 14 of the 19 trials studied, participants included those with “cardiovascular risk factors such as raised cholesterol, diabetes and high blood pressure.” These are not and never would be considered low risk adults even though they have not had a cardiac event – YET!

Finally, an independent Health Canada-funded report called Evidence For Caution: Women and Statin Use in 2008 found: “The evidence base for prescribing statins for women, especially for primary prevention, is weak yet Canadian data suggest that half of all prescriptions are for women. Safety meta-analyses do not disaggregate for women; do not consider female vulnerability to statin-induced muscle problems, and women-centred concerns such as breast-cancer, miscarriage or birth defects are under-researched. Many trials have not published their non-cardiac serious adverse event data. These factors suggest that the standards of full-disclosure, informed consent, evidence-based prescribing and gender-based analysis are not being met and women should proceed with caution.”

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