Comments on: When does mindfulness become mind-numbing? https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/ Marketing Ethics for the Easily Swayed Fri, 26 Aug 2016 00:40:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Rididill https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-102634 Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:40:51 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-102634 well she still felt like that even when she was doing it, clearly. don’t really see how you can make a statement that
“Even the most ardent self-tracker should agree that the process isn’t meant to be a stick to beat oneself with” and then give that poem as an illustration of what’s wrong with it for some people. Clearly, this person felt the stick-beating was intrinsic to it, or she would have just changed the way she approached it rather than giving up.

To say ‘the thrill is gone’ as you did seems a pretty inaccurate descriptor of what her process was all about. She felt that measurement itself created a constant sense of not measuring up.

The main underlying problem as she said it, was that her self-worth was tied to the data. And, as others have said in the comments here, not only this, but it feels like the things they do aren’t even real if they are not measured. The focus isn’t on yourself, on what you are doing, but whether you can live up to something external to yourself – some idea of what the data is supposed to be. There is more alienation from self than self-knowledge going on there – if what isn’t measured, isn’t real, then your own experience of life becomes less and less real; and you become dependent on the data to have some sense of existing. So it is not only self-worth but a sense of even existing that becomes dependent on the data.

I know these aren’t quite the same thing, but it does seem a similar form of self-alienation – one which will vary depending on what your goals are – simply tracking for the sake of tracking or whether you have any targets you wish to change.

And really, I don’t think you have to subscribe to any kind of “extreme behaviour-change-through-public-humiliation” to use self-measurement in a was that is somewhat self-punishing, creating a sense of not measuring up. This has existed long before the quantified self movement – standardized school testing, weight watchers, you name it (just as the former QS said, made her feel she was failing at school exams). I find it odd that you would even seek to deny this, it seems quite obvious this is the purpose.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-102529 Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:17:14 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-102529 Simple. Because Alexandra represents a now former Quantified Selfer.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-102526 Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:14:02 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-102526 Many of the Quantified Selfers I know report that their keen (some might say ‘obsessive’) interest in tracking every possible trackable activity, mood, calorie, mile, etc is just all part of ‘self-knowledge through numbers’. There are other QSers out there who clearly subscribe to the extreme behaviour-change-through-public-humiliation school of thought (requires not only a stick for self-flagellation, but apparently the sticks of other people, too).

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By: Rididill https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-102481 Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:44:19 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-102481 also, if that’s your opinion, why did you quote that poem in your article, as it’s clearly agreeing with what I’m saying…?

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By: Rididill https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-102480 Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:43:13 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-102480 Oh I don’t know. I think there’s an element of stick-beating inherent in it. Why obsessively measure if you aren’t obsessed with targets for self-improvement, and motivating yourself to achieve them? For example – you can take up running but not be interested in measuring your times or distances, but simply on how you feel and how much you enjoy it. It will still improve your fitness, but it’s an entirely different way of going about it.

Say you go for a run, it’s really enjoyable. Then you see your time and realize it was a lot slower than you thought. Shouldn’t matter for your pleasure, but it invariably does, because when you measure, you’ve already made that a more important goal. And if you aren’t measuring to pursue an improvement in the measurements, then I don’t really see the point. Even in those cases, I think it’s a natural tendency to become more focused on the measurement, probably unavoidable.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-102474 Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:25:48 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-102474 Thanks for your comment here. Even the most ardent self-tracker should agree that the process isn’t meant to be a stick to beat oneself with. I hope you’re no longer using that stick . . .

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By: Rididill https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-102467 Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:00:53 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-102467 That poem really is on the mark. About 10 years ago I went on a calorie counting diet, weighing everything I ate. I even started to avoid social occasions where I would be obliged to consume things I couldn’t measure.

Counting my running times, weighing myself everyday, etc. It all just became more sticks to beat myself with. I used to think those kinds of diet were better than ones which cut out certain foods but now I think these are the worst. There was a calculator in my head in the background all of the time, constantly planning how I was going to balance my exercise/calories throughout the day. A phenomenal waste of mental energy that just sucked the joy out of life.

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By: My Lymphoma Journey https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-57921 Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:28:29 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-57921 […] good piece by Carolyn Thomas in When does mindfulness become mind-numbing?, noting the obsessiveness of the quantified selfers to document each and every activity, and who […]

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-57729 Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:04:19 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-57729 Thanks so much for that perspective here, Joe. This reminds me in turn of the saying: “We are human beings, not human doings”.

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By: Joe McCarthy https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-57707 Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:31:31 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-57707 This is a compelling summary of interesting research and [other] observations … though perhaps I’m easily swayed.

I’m reminded of a slogan I first heard in a 12-step program: “When you are what you do, when you don’t, you’re not” and thinking how some of the behaviors described in this post might reflect a slightly reworded perspective: “When you are what you track, when you don’t, you’re not”.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2013/02/06/when-does-mindfulness-become-mind-numbing/comment-page-1/#comment-57503 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:42:47 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=10542#comment-57503 Thanks Andrew – I do use an old-fashioned pedometer to track steps during my daily walks, but I have found that I already have a remarkably accurate idea of my distance based on how long I’m out, often guessing pretty close before I even check the pedometer at the end of a long walk. And I don’t count total daily steps (like grocery shopping as some do – since stop-and-go slow strolling down a grocery aisle hardly counts as the exercise I need, and only serves to artificially boost my daily steps total, which is NOT THE POINT!) I agree with your last comment; as health economist Jane Sarasohn-Kahn explained recently, 2/3 of those who track exercise already consider themselves to be in “good or excellent” physical health.

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