Thwack! Bev smacks herself upside the head.

I need to read what’s written and not make assumptions! I’m new here and from the title of your site, I assumed it meant the discussions would only be around ethical questions. Because of that I read your introduction and unconsciously filled in a an ethical question you never asked! That’s why my entire take on this is not what you intended. The topic, as presented, doesn’t contain an ethical question at all. Now that’s not a criticism. After all, it’s your site, and being loose in what you present for discussion allows room for more choices in topics you can select. It took several back and forth responses before I caught onto my error.

Certainly, most people with money to spare spend far, far too much on things for the sake of buying them. Need has nothing to do with this kind of buying. Or perhaps we buy more for the experience of buying things whether we even want them all that much. What’s worse, since we’re a buy, buy, buy society, those without money to spare, myself included, spend anyway. Spending is a way of life here. And yes, I agree: few will cut back based on your opening comments of our discussion. I think only something very frightening such as a fear of job loss will change behavior.

My question to this is why? Before anyone can get very many people to change, I think it’s necessary that they have the needs which I think are fulfilled by shopping met in some other way.

And by the way, I did go shopping yesterday. I had one actual purpose: My daughter hosted Thanksgiving dinner for the first time and someone inadvertently burned a big spot on the (brand new) placemat. I went to buy a bit of fabric to patch it and I did get that. However, right after telling my girlfriend I was kind of tired of my card making and crafts, I bought some pretty little craft rhinestones on sale….. Ah, the joy of shopping and buying!

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Hi Bev – we are on the same page, actually. And in a fairy tale world, those of us who observe Buy Nothing Day or embrace the philosophy of a Buy Nothing or Buy Less or Buy Local Christmas are hardly making a dent in the fact that 20% of us on the planet consume 80% of the world’s goods. Check this U.K. cartoon for a graphic example of why this over-consumption train is unlikely to derail in the near future. But we live in hope that we can start making conscious buying decisions to prevent those boarded up storefronts (which incidentally, I’m betting are NOT Walmart stores….)

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Well, let me be clearer:

My belief in supporting small local businesses is strong, to help them hang on against the big box stores. However, If there is a drop in overall sales, as in the “Buy Nothing for Christmas” this will drop in sales for small businesses, too, and of enough of us do, some may go flat out of business.

In addition, with the same bottom line down, the Big Box stores will cut some staff too, won’t they? And all of these employees of any business are local people who will join the ranks of the unemployed.

Trust me. I avoid giving my money to the huge chains who are gobbling up small businesses, at least most of the time. I just worry about the overall impact of cutting spending in general. There’s already been plenty of that and we’ve already seen plenty of empty storefronts.

Also, if enough people do cut back, the stock market will drop, and there will be more talk of a second recession. Those who have enough money cut spending, not because of any belief about shopping, but because they fear how a second recession might affect them, (ie “will I be the next to lose my job?”, will probably spend even less.

Again: with the effects of decreased spending and the effects on any size business, are bound to be felt all around and at least cause some jobs to be lost. Am I right here?

There is also the issue of buying power or the lack thereof. So many poor, some for a lifetime and some struggling to learn how to make ends meet or at least to survive. These people, regardless of their values, may not be able to pass up the low prices these giant stores can offer. Are they being unethical?

And besides – my view of literal clerks losing their jobs is a narrow view. There are truckers, manufacturing plants with their employees in a hierarchy of head honcho down to those who may string beads on a string to make a neckless, and who may need the job more than anyone else due to the meager income: These people will suffer if a store makes cutbacks in reflection of sales.

Stupid as it reveals me to be when it comes to national economy, until recently, I had no idea how much our buying things made a difference for so many things!

So what to do? I frankly don’t really know. No easy answer to it, to figure out what is the most ethical.

But maybe there’s an answer I didn’t think of. I’d love to hear it.

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Hi Cave,
1. Good! 2. Me too! 3. Who said life is fair? 4. Think global, act local, as they say.

Meanwhile, we witness insanity like shoppers stabbing each other at a New York mall today, and a Los Angeles Walmart shopper incapacitating dozens of rival shoppers with her pepper spray. I can’t control those morons – I can only manage myself and my own consumer spending decisions.

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Second:
I’m on a very fixed (read small) income.

Third:
Oh, the unfairness of it!

Fourth:
What’s the solution?

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Hi Bev – those massive Black Friday overnight lineups of frenzied shoppers have nothing to do with “supporting small independent businesses”. Realistically, the Big Box stores have little to fear from those of us who celebrate Buy Nothing Day, do they?

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The economy has given me a whole new perspective on things. From an ethical perspective, what is the right thing to do?

(I will add, I am a FIRM believer in buying local and supporting small independent businesses. It’s getting harder and harder to even find small independent businesses to support, so many have gone bankrupt trying to compete with the big box mega-stores.)

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I agree, Cave – it’s not a movement for everybody, but every little bit just might add up someday, right? We live in hope…. BTW, I disagree strongly with the HuffPost quote from some “expert” who asks what’s the difference between buying at Walmart and buying from your local neighbourhood store (that may be getting the same item from the same wholesaler). BIG difference – one purchase voluntarily sends money far away to the head office of a huge Big Box mega corporation, and the other purchase helps your neighbours make a living.

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There’s a Huffington Post article here that addresses Occupy Black Friday.

And remember the ‘don’t buy gas’ efforts from years past?
But A plus for those of us who try.

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