Comments on: Anti-gay? Anti-Jew? Anti-Muslim? It’s those atheists we trust least

By: Carolyn Thomas

Carolyn Thomas — Sat, 26 May 2012 18:31:56 +0000

Interesting points, Kate (especially the part about me being persuasive and intelligent!) I suspect however that, in reality, this ideal mutual respect is a tad one-sided just as the UBC research seems to suggest: not much respect out there among churchgoers for that “lack of belief” in others. Thanks for your perspective here!

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By: Kate

Kate — Sat, 26 May 2012 17:41:40 +0000

What a wonderful, refreshing take on atheism. I have never bought the argument that you have to believe in god to be a moral person.

I respect other people’s religious beliefs, just as I think they should respect my lack of belief in a higher power. Whichever way you look at it, life is a gift, and it’s one I am deeply grateful for, whatever the source. As always, you argue persuasively and intelligently without attacking either side.

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By: davewyman

davewyman — Sat, 26 May 2012 03:10:43 +0000

I wrote specifically about atheists who are moral. Certainly there are immoral atheists. My point remains: atheists can be as moral or more moral as theists.

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By: Carolyn Thomas

Carolyn Thomas — Fri, 25 May 2012 20:21:33 +0000

I agree – “Many” was probably what was meant, and was also definitely what Dave said.

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By: lymegate

lymegate — Fri, 25 May 2012 20:14:14 +0000

While mostly agreeing with the post and the comments I’d be willing to bet there are quite a few atheists who do commit murder, are rapists, thieves etc.

But I do agree with this: “Many atheists are more moral than many theists”.

“Many”—– not all. That probably what was meant.— Just saying.

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By: Carolyn Thomas

Carolyn Thomas — Fri, 25 May 2012 20:06:26 +0000

While it’s unfair to generalize one way or another, Dave, one can’t help but wonder about theists like those in the catholic church, whose predator priests sexually abused generations of vulnerable minors while church officials calmly looked the other way. Maybe they need a few atheists at the Vatican to help advise the devout on the basic differences between right and wrong?

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By: Dave Wyman

Dave Wyman — Fri, 25 May 2012 18:56:57 +0000

This is a terrific topic.

“nearly half of Americans believe morality is impossible without personal belief in a supreme being”

Many atheists are more moral than many theists, for the latter rely for their morality on the directive of a god. Atheists act morally because they’ve had to think about how to act. They don’t act morally, for example, out of fear of damnation. They act because they’ve learned what is right and wrong from their upbringing, from study, from circumstances, etc.

And if morality is an unchanging standard, one that even a god can’t change, then a god, or The God, has no control over morality. But if morality is something changeable, depending on what a god decides is moral, then theists would change their actions in a heartbeat, not based on what they believe to be moral, but on the new dictates of their god.

Moral atheists, though, hold to an inner standard, based, again, on upbringing, from study, from circumstances, etc. They don’t base their morality on the whims of the gods.

As Socrates asked, do the gods love something because it is good, or is something good because the gods love it? Just remove the gods or God from the question, and there is an answer. Atheists don’t need gods to know murder is wrong, that child molestation is wrong, that lying is wrong, that making war, not love, is wrong. But theists do.

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By: Carolyn Thomas

Carolyn Thomas — Fri, 25 May 2012 15:21:26 +0000

Thanks Cave! And Francis . . .😉

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By: cave76

cave76 — Fri, 25 May 2012 15:15:36 +0000

VERY good article but, to quote Francis X. Urquhart
“”You might very well think that; I couldn’t possibly comment.”

(Have to avoid hate mail, ya know? LOL)

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