Comments on: Waiter’s phony $10 tip includes a religious lesson https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/ Marketing Ethics for the Easily Swayed Fri, 26 Aug 2016 00:40:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Shane David https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-47378 Mon, 05 Nov 2012 02:19:53 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-47378 We also get minimum wage of $20.82 or so per hour. is also good.

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By: James Connor https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-47338 Sun, 04 Nov 2012 16:05:09 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-47338 we dont tip in australia😀 is good.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26818 Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:36:16 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26818 Hi Bev – I know what you’re saying. Tipping is a very arbitrary custom in our culture – some get tips, others don’t – and as you said previously, it defies logic. Who knows who made this stuff up? I do love your “letters of commendation” idea and wish we all did more of that in general. I once stayed in a hotel that had a framed letter displayed in the elevator, a thank you letter from a former hotel guest who had specifically acknowledged a number of helpful staff members by name, with specific details of why they’d made such an impact during his stay there. Just imagine what seeing this letter displayed publicly must have meant to those hotel employees day after day!

As for the “Why?” of tipping, good question! I prefer to chalk this up to just being a custom of the particular society we live in. Different customs in different cultures. Western cultures seem to have adopted this custom as a societal norm. I don’t think we’re going to end it.
cheers,
C.

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By: Bev https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26769 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 19:58:23 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26769 I must not be expressing myself very well. I did not say I was opposed to tipping. I said I am frustrated by the unfair and irrational rules. My examples were giving a waiter at a high end (say, $150+ dinner for two) a 15% tip,($37.50) while giving nothing to a woman at a fast food restaurant. And even if you tipped her, the meal would certainly not exceed $30 for dinner for two and give her a tip of $4.50. What is fair about that? I don’t not want to tip. I want the tipping to be FAIR. The woman at McDonald’s is surely in more trouble financially, don’t you think?

The same logic and my same frustration is present in the unfairness of tipping a maid but skipping the janitor and laundry people. Why are we tipping some but not others? Where is the fairness there?

I didn’t include another aspect here, but why do we only tip people who are doing something for us? Why don’t we give to the people at rest stops and along the freeway who are cleaning up litter? How about store clerks? There are thousands of jobs not in the service industry who are making pathetic incomes with no benefits. Why do we have such an arbitrary system? I can see how it naturally evolved from the combination of good manners in terms of expressing thank you and recognizing that person makes low wages, but we are also rational people, too. I just don’t understanding the arbitrariness of tipping a select group and ignoring others.

AND, if we tip all those deserving under my criteria, there might not be much middle class left. As I said, there are thousands of people working for far below poverty wages. If I were to give to every one of theme connected with my daily business, like the janitors in my grocery stores and department stores, *Rite Aide kinds of stores and all, what is left in my pocket?

A last issue I have is my own belief in looking globally rather than with horseblinders and only seeing local need. Why are we spending this tip money to better the life of those who are scraping by when there are millions who are not even doing that? I dedicate pretty much 100% of my charitable money to an organization which has its primary focus of saving lives – literally. Those people are far away, but out of sight – out of mind is a ridiculous excuse for giving generous tips to those who ARE scraping or better, (my hair dresser – we tip all hair dressers, right? – takes himself and his mother on a luxury vacation at least once a year), rather than people sleeping ON THE FLOOR in their straw thatched, one room hut with the dirt floor, which becomes a MUD floor when it rains and the rain leaks through the thatch. Their water is full of parasites and all manner of other life robbing micro-organisms. They have far too little to eat, never mind the right food. These people very often live miles from any clinic and have only their legs for transportation. They don’t even try to reach help unless the need is great and then the very ill villager, carried on a litter of two rough planks, will frequently not even survive the several day journey to see a doctor. Where is the fairness in any of the rules we are living by?**

I write letters of commendation for service above average. Often. How many do that? I do not imply you can live on complements, but they may well lead to a raise and it’s a way to “tip” the many who never get any actual tips in our arbitrary system of recognition.

Is it clear that I am not begrudging the poor? Can you see I am doing my best to try to get my excess into the hands who need it the most? If you can’t, then I ask you to just believe me when I say I care and ACT to recognize, thank, and reward locally. including MORE GENEROUS THAN MOST. (Remember the 20 to 25% tips I said I give?)

Can anyone explain to me how our current unwritten tipping rules are fair? Will anyone address the concerns I have expressed?
______________
*I have no idea what Rite Aid pays their employees or if they sub-contract janitorial work through a janitorial company, or what. Just an example of a store which seems unlikely to be handing out any big paychecks.
**To be honest, I have a hard time justifying the home I live in and everything in it, with its enormous relative wealth, to say nothing about squandering my money eating out when I could be using that money to save lives. How many people needlessly die when I buy that darling sweater or go out for dinner to my favorite Indian restaurant? Are there others who ask these questions?

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26753 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:27:24 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26753 Indeed. Thanks for your perspective as one who knows.

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By: thevaletdiary https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26752 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:05:28 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26752 Bev-
you need to realize that the majority of people working in the service industry (at least in the US) make far below minimum wage, have poor or no healthcare and benefits, and that 15 – 20% is what pulls them up to making a modest wage. I think you’d be hard pressed to find the wait staff that makes more than a professional does, and if you do, remember they are on their feet for an entire shift, a lot of them work double, and they have to deal with people and complaints all day long. I highly doubt the professional has a revolving cast of new faces they must please over and over all day every day. This includes people who are down right rude and offensive, as well as people who are great.

Carolyn –

On the other end, I am a valet at a high end restaurant where the service is complimentary to our guests. I’m sorry to say that I have been on the receiving end of numerous of these fake $10 bible tracts as well as just regular tracts. We’ve been stiffed by so many Christians, that when we hear a Christian radio station in someones car, nine times out of ten, the tip will be poor or nothing at all. I grew up in a Christian family, and I’ve been out with those people that somehow don’t think they have to tip and it doesn’t paint them to be the horrible people they are. When I see this, I end up tipping for them because I’m embarrassed by their conduct. It makes me think, what would Jesus do?

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By: Bev https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26736 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:28:50 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26736 Okay, I have to bite here. Carolyn, thank you for bringing this topic up! I have long wanted to have a conversation about it.

Disclaimers for me include the following:
1. My daughter has not worked as a waitress. I, however, have.
2. I am not Christian.
3. Despite what you will read below, I probably tip more than the majority of people. I usually leave a 20-25% tip, so don’t think I’m tight fisted.
4. I give, give, give, from the heart, to those in need. Last year I gave a woman I was babysitting for $1,000 anonymously when she was in an auto accident and couldn’t afford even a down payment on another (very used) car. (Yes, you read that right. I was the babysitter.) I also bought a pack of cigarettes for a homeless person who was standing by a public ashtray on the sidewalk smoking butts. These are two extreme examples. Most of my giving is more “ordinary,” but give, I do.
5. I am NOT a person of “means”. Considering the babysitting, maybe that’s obvious, but I thought I’d be real clear.

This tipping custom is baffling, arbitrary, and defies logic, and it rankles me every time the issue comes up. Maybe someone here can explain how the explicit rules as well as the rules actually followed make sense. I have posed a short list of questions, in no particular order. Have at it – make my day – clarify for me why any of this makes sense?

First of all, where do we draw the line? When do we NOT tip? Why? According to whom?

People tip the waiter in an expensive restaurant handsomely, but how often do employees of McDonalds see any tip at all? Who needs the money more? Do we tip to help out those (presumably) in more need or do we blindly follow a nonsensicle social custom of percents (when it comes to food service)?

And who came up with this 15% rule? It simply guarantees that those working in the most fashionable, high end eating establishments may well make more money than many professionals, while those serving customers at diners will continue to need food stamps (and a lot of food-stretching know-how) to feed their families.

What if “the person doing things for me,” to use Ruth’s definition, makes more money than I do?

Exactly who is included in “the person doing things for me”? I am a (retired) nurse. I am guessing I am not on the list for who to tip. What about doctors? Nurse’s aides? What about the housekeeping staff? Those housekeepers you see? Or will you include those who work in the laundry, also at minimum wages, if wages have anything to do with it? (Do they?) What about the janitor, who we never see but who keeps the restrooms clean? I could go on and on.

But instead I’ll stop here. It’s late and I’m tired. My thoughts aren’t well organized, but you catch my drift. I guess there is an overall question of why and why not? The answers I get or guess at don’t seem to make any sense. The whole issue is just frustrating.

Now I have to ask, Carolyn, seeing as how I just did something for you in posting on your blog, (okay, it’s a stretch…), where’s my tip?

Thanks again for choosing this topic,

Bev

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By: Dave Wyman https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26708 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 02:50:13 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26708 Mea culpa, mea culpa!

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26707 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 02:38:33 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26707 I agree, Dr. Ruth. Many years ago, when my son Ben was in high school, he worked at a local (full service) gas station after school. That was the first time I realized that many people tip their gas station attendants! Ben told me that his regular customers would often say: “Keep the change!” when giving him a $20 bill for an $18 fill, particularly when he had washed the windows, checked the oil, tire pressure, etc. He was absolutely thrilled about each tip! Since then, in a world of self-serve NON-service, I like to “show my appreciation” for gas station employees who go above and beyond the ordinary with “outstanding” service. It all makes for feel-good karma, I think.

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By: Carolyn Thomas https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26704 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 02:29:17 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26704 Pull yourself together, Dave.😉 Handing out phony $10 bill “tips” is not rational. It’s just stupid!

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By: Dr. Ruth Simkin https://ethicalnag.org/2012/01/30/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-a-religious-lesson/comment-page-1/#comment-26701 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 01:30:30 +0000 http://ethicalnag.org/?p=8103#comment-26701 Disclosures:
1) I never had a daughter working in a restaurant; in fact, I never had a daughter
2) I have never worked in a restaurant, at least not for pay
3) I typically tip much closer to the 20%, more if the service is outstanding

I absolutely do not understand people who do not tip other people who serve them in restaurants. The same concept applies to any other human being who does things for us: cleans our homes, walks our dogs, takes away our garbage, delivers our newspapers or mail.

How can we not say we appreciate what they do for us? The non-tippers should not accept any service from anyone who they won’t tip. Maybe then they can see how much other people do for them and what little we can do to show our appreciation. Those Christians are very un-Christian.

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